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COOPERHAWK
Moderator
Expert
Posts:838
Administrators
East Central Minnesota
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| 06/06/2007 2:49 PM |
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There needs to be a link to use to post on the survey about gas prices and traveling. Right now it is very hard to find a way to post. 
Gas prices here are on the way down. They hit $3.25 two weeks ago and now are about $2.90 today. I always figure that spring and fall when they have to change the refineries over to different blends the prices will go up for a while. Here's an interesting question. Why can't we build more refineries. I know, I know, NIMBY. (Not in my back yard). Well, guess what, here in the midwest they are building ethonal plants like crazy. From what I read they are more detrimental to the environment than oil refineries. They use tremendous amounts of water in their process which is lowering aquifers. The product is so exposive that it is difficult to ship. It can't be pumped through a pipe line either. Has to be trucked.
Maybe we should be questioning some of this. I personally think we're being led down a path here.  |
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1985 Airstream 345 Turbo-Diesel
VFW,Legion, NRA
FAA Air Traffic Control Supervisor (Retired)
http://www.cooperhawk.net
mailto:jimcooper@cooperhawk.net
"People are okay in ones and twos. After that number they tend to choose up sides and wear arm bands and berets." |
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Balrgn
Moderator
Expert
Posts:805
Registered Users
Southern NH
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| 06/06/2007 7:06 PM |
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That's a good point Coop, they are cutting off our noses to spite our face!
It is still hard to understand, why a news story spikes a price of a product already produced. |
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1977 Argosy 20
454 V8 Gas
Southern NH
Maintenance Analyst
www.balrgn.com |
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bobchevy89
Not a Newbie
Posts:48
Registered Users
Inverness Fl 34453
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| 06/06/2007 8:19 PM |
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| just wait till you see the price of meat and chicken. milk will be about $5.00 a gal by fall. all the corn is going to ethonal plants , farmers are getting twice the price per bushel than going to cattle feed. |
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Krashdragon
Not a Newbie
Posts:35
Registered Users
Frostbite Falls, Ohio...near Cleveland
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| 06/06/2007 8:59 PM |
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Just be glad you don't live in Hawaii.... the local dairy fresh milk has been up to $7.50 a gal for several years now....
The big box brands are considerably cheaper, tho....
Another problem with ethanol is that you need more of it to get the same power, therefore more fuel emissions...
It just sounds better to say your running on a renewable resource such as corn, than renewable oil.... Most people dont' realize oil is renewable... it's just that mother nature does it, not us humans...
Mary |
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travcoman45
Camper
Posts:63
Registered Users
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| 11/16/2007 9:05 AM |
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Not that I'm sticking up for anybody, but here are a few new facts about ethanol, One, corn meal is a byproduct of the process, it is sold to feed cattle and other livestock, thus getting two products from one. Two, there are new processes for making it that cuts the water requirement by over 80 percent. Three, ethanol burns cleaner then fossil fuel thus the lower emmissions. Four, it is a much faster renewable resource then is fossil fuels.
There is also a new process out allowing the left over corn meal from ethanol to be processed into Biodiesel, thus making the process even more efficient.
Remember what is shipped in pipelines, oil, big oil does not like the idea of anykind of competition, the main reason ethanol is not being shipped in pipe lines is because big oil does not like it. If you own a pipeline, you don't wan't to make your biggest customer mad. Thus, ethanol is shipped by rail and truck. We have the countries largest transferr facillity being built in Manly Iowa right now. All for the transferr of ethanol from truck to rail.
One of the main reasons you see prices going up on the items we buy is not due to higher feed costs, it is due to higher transportation costs. We all complain about the price of gas and diesel, yet some say, "why do we not here from the truckers about high fuel costs", Why, because most don't care what the price of fuel is, that cost is simply passed on to the retailer, in turn, the retailer passes that cost on to us. The problem being, we have no one to pass the cost onto, so, we pay twice, for delivery of products and at the pump.
Brazil has been using alcohol in its vehicles for many years. Why don't we?
Are Bio fuels the answer to our problems, No, not totally, there is no one answer to our situation. It will take many new fuels and systems to break the oil companies backs and our dependency on foreign oil. Our biggest problem is that our politicians are in the pockets of big oil. Remember, oil used to be regulated by the government, and unless that occurs again, prices will run amuck at the wishes of those making the billions of dollars on the backs of the working man. We need to step up to the plate and demand some control over this price gouging. To many refinieries are setting at low production. We also need to quit sending our gas overseas, keep what we need first and then send them the excess. We always short ourselves in order to make the big bucks. Now China is trying to cut a deal with Cuba to drill oil off the Florida coast. Gee, I beleive we need to do that rather then let more foreign countrys controll our oil.
OK, done ranting. Sorry.
Tip. |
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Balrgn
Moderator
Expert
Posts:805
Registered Users
Southern NH
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| 11/17/2007 7:18 AM |
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Does not sound like ranting at all. At some point we will have to have a viable alternative.  |
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1977 Argosy 20
454 V8 Gas
Southern NH
Maintenance Analyst
www.balrgn.com |
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COOPERHAWK
Moderator
Expert
Posts:838
Administrators
East Central Minnesota
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| 11/17/2007 10:30 AM |
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Here in the Midwest it is a "Sacrilege" to criticize ethanol. Say one word and ten corn farmers will run you down with their new diesel pickups. In truth it is a giant industry that benefits the farm community and really no one else.
They don't ship it in piplines because they "Can't"! It is too volitale. Very few people buy it voluntarily. It is mandated to be in our gasoline and we have no choice. It dries out and destroys seals in motors. It does not produce nearly as much energy per gallon as gasoline.
The last statistic I read was that it takes 4 btus of natural gas, to produce 5 brus of ethonal. Now, you have to figure in the government grants and subsidies that the ethonal industry recieves. The Ethonal Industry in Minnesota was recieving millions of state aid to build and run these plants. The Governor recently said "No more public money!" We'll see how that turns out.
If all the tillable acres in America were put to corn production, they still couldn't produce enough ethonal to take the place of more that ten per cent of the fuel demands of our country. Add in the rising price of corn used in other products such as cereals, corn oil, ect.
Just as we have been led singing and skipping down the Global Warming hoax path, ethonal is just one of the outcomes of that the "Greatest of hoaxs ever visited on the American public."
Doubt me? Read "State of Fear" written by Micheal Chriton.
There are sheep and wolves. Don't count me as a sheep.
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1985 Airstream 345 Turbo-Diesel
VFW,Legion, NRA
FAA Air Traffic Control Supervisor (Retired)
http://www.cooperhawk.net
mailto:jimcooper@cooperhawk.net
"People are okay in ones and twos. After that number they tend to choose up sides and wear arm bands and berets." |
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travcoman45
Camper
Posts:63
Registered Users
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| 01/04/2008 12:13 PM |
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It's crazy here, the stations that were high have gone down a nickel and the stations that were low wen't up a nickel. Running about 2.94 here. Diesel is running 3.32 at Murphy (Walmart).
We diffenetly need more refinieries. But they won't build them because then the price of fuel drops because of the higher supply. Ethanol is not the solution to our problems, but a step in the right direction. There is alot of hype about the price of foods and such going up do to higher corn prices, one of the byproducts of ethanol is corn meal which is sold cheaply as cattle feed and for other useses. They now recycle most all of the water used in producing ethanol so water consumption has dropped signifacantly.
As I said, ethanol and biodiesel are not the total solution, only a part of it. |
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elbundi
Not a Newbie
Posts:31
Registered Users
southwest georgia
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| 01/04/2008 9:45 PM |
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when i arrived in america in 2000 the price of gas was less than dollar. coming from england i was shocked because we were then paying the equivalent of $4 per (imperial) gallon. now it's something like $6 and here stateside it's $3 a gallon. thing is the vehicles over here are not that efficient and are much much bigger. the big 3 in detroit are currently being whooped by the japs, but that won't be for long if they get their act together.
dependency on foreign oil from unstable countries will always be a problem, and yes home grown corn for fuel is a step in the right direction as well as other alternative fuel source, bio diesel, hydrogen power etc. but primarily it's down to vehicle manufacturers to make better on the engines they build.
my thirsty 454 big block gets 8mpg on a good day (yes i've succumbed to the american dream and will be a citizen within the yr) but what about all that heat being produced in the doghouse?
the stats are something like only 20% of the potential energy being created by the internal combustion engine goes into propelling the vehicle. and then what about stopping the 16,500ib monster?
i recently read somewhere that BMW is developing an expansion / compression unit called a turbo steamer which takes heat from the exhaust and the steam is then conducted directly into an expansion unit linked to the crankshaft of the internal combustion engine. Most of the remaining heat is absorbed by the cooling circuit of the engine, which acts as the second energy supply for the Turbosteamer.
then take the concept that the toyota prius. breaking power is used to recharge a bank of batteries which in turn operate electric motors. these electric motors have very high torque to rpm ratio's, ideal for us motorhome users and these can also be added somewher within the crankshaft
i believe with these technologies, my 345 could get 25mpg or more. however the premuim for all these extras would be prohibitive if major manufacturing were not set up to produce the parts en masse
and then there's politics. those with big money do like their big money. how few refineries equals how much profit for the share holders? there's plenty of dinosaur oil is left for decades. alternative fuel patents anyone?
global warming, global cooling. phew, can you fix my thermostat!!
er what was the original thread again :)
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elbundi
Not a Newbie
Posts:31
Registered Users
southwest georgia
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| 01/04/2008 9:46 PM |
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| ps. as of jan 4 '08 at my local walmart- 89 octane $3.23 |
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